Yes, we need this

Someone asked:

Ookamisan to Shichinin no Nakamatachi — Does anyone really need this?

I thought you were a J.C.Staff fanboy? Why, yes, we really need this. Do you not like DFC? Do you not like tsundere?

(Click for larger image)

This is like the third thing I’m most looking forward to this summer, after HAVING NO SCHOOL and Fairy Ring.

15 Responses to “Yes, we need this”

  1. I’m not a J.C. Staff fanboi. I like a lot of their shows, but I think some of them have been really stupid.

    Case in point: J.C. Staff produced Eiken.

  2. KimikoMuffin says:

    Yes. I do not like tsundere. ;3

  3. jbrennan says:

    Okay, fans of tsundere have to explain it to me. Is it because the male protagonists paired with the tsundere are usually spineless everymen, thereby allowing the viewer to insert himself and make it seem like a personal conquest when the tsundere inevitably breaks down? I mean, the normal progression of tsundere is pretty clearly geared towards humiliating the woman to some degree; whether she’s tsundere because she’s strong and (thinks) she knows what she wants, or because she’s just acting out her insecurities, is irrelevant. If my hypothesis is correct, the former are more interesting because there’s actual resistance on the woman’s part that has to be broken down to turn her into your possession.

    I guess, when taken that way, it seems like they only like tsunderes because it reaffirms their attitudes about their strength as men; no strong woman can resist him, and therefore he has over 9000 charm, virility, attractiveness, etc.

    Someone help me out here? Personally, if I met a woman like that, I wouldn’t be able to put up with her long enough to get to the delicious dere core.

  4. jbrennan says:

    I guess one other appeal could be to the lolicon segment of anime fans. I think it’s no coincidence that the recent push towards “moe” involves make the characters more girly and less womanly. It’s also interesting to note that almost all high-profile tsundere characters are basically just elementary school girls in both body and mentality.

  5. KimikoMuffin says:

    @jbrennan: Actually, I’ve been trying to figure out myself. That could be a part of it, now that you mention it, but I think it’s nothing so convoluted (or at least, nothing so specific as all that — things like “objectification” are part of the presentation, not the character-archetype, and “the guy is a spineless audience-surrogate” isn’t actually the girl’s fault, so to speak).

    Basically, it’s the whole “playing hard to get” thing, without the artificiality of the “playing” part. At the same time, tsundere-traits are often paried with other appealing traits (such as, yes, excessive “moe”), so it’s sort of a Pavlovian classical-conditioning thing, except that instead of salivating at the sound of a bell, tsundere fans salivate at the sound of a girl stammering “I-it’s not like I LIKE you or anything!”

  6. KimikoMuffin says:

    Oh, and if the recent trend for girly-instead-of-womanly tsunderes is part of the Moe Explosion, it’s part of the Moe Explosion. It’s not the fault of the tsundere phenomenon itself.

  7. jbrennan says:

    I’m not sure that I buy that.

    There’s a difference between playing hard to get, and covering up your insecurities by being abusive; mainly, in the former case it becomes a game (especially when both parties are aware of what’s going on), whereas in the latter case the guy is usually just a hapless victim who only comes around to the tsundere because the story dictates him doing so. I especially have a hard time liking that explanation given the fact that the vast majority of the tsundere heroines we see (especially all the popular ones) are basically arrested in elementary school from both a physical and emotional development perspective.

    Of course, you could argue that the major development in the last several years of anime has been to turn women from women into walking collections of fetishes. That certainly always existed, but now it’s so prevalent that to see a normal woman in an anime is actually a bit of a shock. I mean, yeah, you could argue that it’s a result of cultural forces in Japan, stereotypes of what women are/should be, Asian drive to conform over individuality, etc. But really, a tsundere is basically just bait for lolicons (she looks and acts like a little girl), S&M fetishists (she’s physically abusive), guys insecure in their own masculinity (she eventually breaks down and becomes a spineless object of mine, therefore I must be manly), and maybe some other corner-case fetishists (stammering fetishists? I dunno).

    I mean, without even bothering to do any research on the lite novels this anime comes from – just by looking at the picture in the OP – I can say that the main hero will basically be an audience insert. The heroine will like him but some psychological issue(s) will keep her from being honest with herself and she’ll act that out on him until she finally breaks and degenerates into a dereblob. The other female characters are there to appeal to the harem crowd and to act as a pretense for triggering tsundere violence and “comical misunderstandings”. In other words, the series will just be generic harem with tsundere lead, and the only thing that might set it apart from all the other generic harem with tsundere lead series will probably be a tongue-in-cheek genre awareness. Given that, I think the question that triggered Sixten’s response is actually justified.

  8. jbrennan says:

    Okay, so I just got back from getting myself some coffee, and I thought about this while doing so and decided to elaborate a little bit.

    To specifically address the “moe” issue: As I understand it, moe is less a trait and more of an ability to induce a possessive-protective response in the person watching. That’s why moeblobs tend to be mentally vapid, overly cute, generally defenseless, etc. Tsunderes have some of that – especially the ones that are overtly insecure with themselves, in which case the invitation is to act as the pillar against which she can lean while she gets back on her feet. The issues I have with this are several:

    1) The abusive or tsun aspect makes it harder in most cases to generate a moe response because she’s actively repelling you,
    2) The hapless main heroes are often more moe than the heroines,
    3) The dere aspect is pretty much the only moe bit there is,
    4) The story setup is often not conducive to a moe response (especially in harem scenarios where there’s something to pander to every taste, so the effect is diluted).

    I mean, in many cases the less tsun tsunderes often have a larger moe component to them than the more tsun ones, depending on your tastes. But “tsunderes are moe!” is just not a very satisfying explanation, at least in my mind.

    @Anime women as fetishes: I hesitate to use the term “objectification” here because, in Western culture at least, it has a very strong sexual component – that is, the women are supposed to be heavily sexualized and viewed as sexual objects. There’s a parallel process going on here, but it’s less overt than in Western media. I guess I could have safely used the term, but they’re different enough in my mind to warrant different descriptive treatment.

    I guess I just find it distressing to see characters that are clearly meant to undergo growth, but where the writers end up conflating “growth” with “switching from one-dimensional tsun mode to one-dimensional dere mode.” But I guess I may just think too much anymore to appreciate anime (even the supposedly deep anime these days haven’t been able to sort out the difference between actually being deep and “having random stuff happen and characters say random deep things in the hopes of creating an atmosphere of depth.”).

  9. jbrennan says:

    Also, sorry for hijacking your blog, 610.

  10. Skribulous says:


    No, KimikoMuffin. You are the tsundere. :3


    You need your own blog. No, really. I’d read it. 😉

  11. Skribulous says:

    And on the main topic of The Wolf, Red Hood, and their Seven Friends, I’ll give it the 3-episode taste test. Who knows, it just might be the Angel Beats! of the summer season.

  12. jbrennan says:

    @Skribulous: Nah, I’m just a random low-level troll on the interwebs trying to make myself sound smart by spouting a bunch of pseudo-intellectual drivel LOL XD ^^

  13. KimikoMuffin says:

    And I was trying to say that the “moe” thing, the “tsundere” thing, and the “objectification” thing are actually separate, unconnected things. Sure, there’s some correlation, but none of them is a vital component of any of the others.

    Mind you, I have almost no detailed experience with any tsunderes more recent than Kyon (it’s clear that in this Takahashi Couple, he’s the tsundere and Haruhi’s the Jerk), and probably no female tsunderes more recent than Kagome, Akane, and Tron Bonne.

  14. Skribulous says:

    @jbrennan: You should at least consider it.
    @KimikoMuffin: Yep, definitely a tsundere. XD

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